Fireman fired for being too fat
July 17, 2008 by Fred HosierPosted in: Latest News & Views, That's how they do it in ______
A fireman in Scotland has been fired after 22 years of duty. His superiors say he’s now too fat to carry out his job.
Grampian Fire and Rescue dismissed Kevin Ogilvie on the grounds he posed a safety risk.
Now, the Fire Brigades Union has scheduled a strike vote for later in the summer over the matter.
The union says Ogilvie should have been reassigned instead of fired. It’s believed Ogilvie is the first Scottish fireman fired for being overweight.
Grampian Fire Assistant Chief Peter Murray said the service should not create a new job for a firefighter who was unfit for the job.
“The standards are pretty clear. We’ve got gyms in every one of our stations,” Murray said.
The assistant chief went on to say, ”The fitness policy is designed to protect the organization and the individual himself.”
A statement from Grampian Fire says it was forced to act after a “very long and arduous process of … consideration.”
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Perhaps Chief Peter Murray should be fired based on the color of his eyes or perhaps the fact that he may have too much grey hair! Obviously 22 years of duty stands for nothing. I wonder if those 22 years of duty as a firefighter posed a safety risk to Kevin Ogilvie and his family! I hope the Fire Brigades Union really goes to bat and seeks adequate compensation for Mr. Ogilvie and his family. Perhaps there is a discrimination law suit lurking here as well.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I think all safety forces (fire & police) have an obligation to stay healthy and in shape to be able
to do their jobs. If he were sent to a fire and someone lost their life because of his weight issue
they could and probably would be sued for his negligence and they allowed it.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
It isn’t about what he looks like but what he is, and it seems he’s obese. I would like to believe his weight has been brought up beforehand and some recommendations have been made. If I were in trouble I would prefer a person who is physically able to perform his duties to be available, than someone who may go into cardiac arrest and go from being saved to savior.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
My first question would be just how overweight is this firefighter? If he is just a few pounds from the standard then get him to lose the weight.
My second question would be if the department and upper managment knew of the weight issue of this firefighter did they get rid of him to save on a pension plan? Just remember 22 years of service, he should know quite a few things of firefighting and could become an instructor teaching new hires. It’s nothing like having an experiensed professional instructing raw recruits in the art of emergency services. Take my word on this I have been involved in EMS for over 23 years and love to teach new people.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Being over weight doesn’t happen over night. The Fire Chief, Crew Captain and management should have noticed the Fire Fighter was putting on weight. Did they address the matter before it became a problem? If not they should have given this man an opportunity to lose the excess pounds. As a former firefighter of 15 years I know first hand the risk he places not only on himself but, the crew itself. When a fire requires being fought from within the building a firefighter unknowlingly, goes under considerable stress.
As an HR manager I would suggest management provide medical & physical training assistance to this firefighter. Allow him a given amount of time to get back in shape. He fails to meet the objective and no other position within the department is available the department must consider the well being of others and uphold the termination. I would also suggest the Union provide assistance to their member as a show of brotherhood. The Union must understand that they too have a responsibility to their other firefighters - failure to protect them and the public’s interest is not only poor leadership, it’s also irresponsible.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Cheryl, I understand your position. In this case there is a fine line between descrimination and public interest. As a norm most fire departments require Firefighters to maintain a healthy life style. Should the department have allowed or provide help to this firefighter? Absolutely. Does management have any responsibility in this case? They do! People do not just become obese.
Ideally, this Firefighter should have been informed of the standards well before his weight became a problem. I do not know if they looked at alternatives, such as giving him a desk job but, given the time in service, his experience and cost of training a replacement I think they should have found some common ground from which to work. Let’s keep in mind the problem rest not on management but on the employee. The employee must make a concentrated effort to resolve the issue and management and his Union should help support his effort.
I disagree the Union should strike over this matter. They need to work with management to resolve the problem. They also have a responsibility to other Firefighters and the public’s safety.
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:11 pm
As always, there is more than one side to the story. What we don’t know is how far over weight was he. Was he given chances to lose the weight and how many times? How long had his weight been a problem? Was there a fitness standard? Is this a new standard recently enforced or has it been around for a long time?
Most if not all fire department have some kind of fitness standard to get on the job. If they have these standards for getting on the job, then why would you not want a fitness standard to stay on the job? Firefighting is a strenous and stressful job. It is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. Why would you as an individual or as a victim not want to have the firemen in shape?
I agree that 22 years on the job should count for something. But in that time, this fireman didn’t just suddenly gain his weight. It happened over the years. He becomes a liability to himself and his fellow workers. What happens if he goes into a burning building and goes down either by accident or due to a medical condition. This put a huge strain on his fellow firemen who now have to rescue a brother firefighter. The Chief stated that the standards are pretty clear. If he is unfit for duty then he shouldn’t have the job. What if he lost his eye site, if he lost his hand, if he couldn’t hear, would you keep him on the job even after 22 years? There are other things that keep firemen unfit for duty and they are not allowed to work if unfit.
I agree that a new job shouldn’t be created just to keep him. I think the union should work towards making sure that all of their members are in shape and fit for duty. The military has standard for its personnel and it is adjusted as they grow older. If they don’t past the standard, they have a chance to retake it and if they fail again they are released from duty. Is it so wrong to require the same type of program for our safety forces? After all, we required a fitness test for them to get on the job.
I have to agree with most of what RJL says.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
First of all, I am a firefighter and almost 40 years old. No one should be defending this guy blindly. The reality is this-A firesuit plus air bottle and tools carried are in excess of 80 plus pounds. The temp inside your suit is approx 130F. Now you have to pull ceiling and walls to find the fire, and drag a hoseline charged with water around corners of the building. In a perfect world, you would have 4 firefighters in a group. But…taxpayers think fire departments get too much money, so it will be you and one other guy, if your lucky, two other guys fighting the fire. That means you are working hardcore in conditions that are 700F with zero to low visibility. A firefighter in top shape can burn through an air bottle in 20 minutes, working hard, if he’s lucky. A fat guy will kill a bottle in 5 minutes. Everyone who enters together, must leave together. Is 5 minutes of work all you want out of firefighters when your house is on fire and you don’t know
if your loved ones are still inside? If you find a victim or a firefighter gets injured, it takes 2 firefighters to effectively get him out. DO THE MATH. If you want to get fat, sloppy and out of shape, that’s your problem. But it becomes the other firefighters’ problem if he is allowed to stay at the department.
I have a wife and 2 kids at home who depend on me whom I love very much. DON’T ANYONE DARE allow the reason kids become fatherless be due to not doing the right thing, which is, getting rid of those who can’t do their job.
CHERYL- ALL FIREFIGHTERS know what the standard is, and know that your crew is putting their lives in your hands. He is probably vested, will collect his retirement, and the firefighters on that shift probably feel much safer and more confident that they will be seeing their families after shift change. I hope this sets a precedence to protect firefighters around the world.
DAVID- You know better than that. You lead by example from the front…not from the rear. If you can’t do your job, how can you teach students how to do it? Instructors go in with the students on live burns. They are supposed to ensure the fireground is safe. If he can’t hang with the class, he can’t ensure their safety. ALL of my instructors were great firefighters and in great shape.
RJL- You are right on all points. I’ve got a feeling that this was not a sudden surprise to this overweight guy. He probably was picked on first by his crew, then they approached their chief about their concerns, then the chief investigated/observed him struggling during training, then reminded him of the standard and told him to get back in shape, and he failed. Everyone has to be held accountible his/her own actions.
If you want a desk job, become a chief. If not…stay in shape. There are no other options.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
I for the most part agree with Mike. He has covered most of the bases. I will add this. I am a firefighter with 36 years of service. Guess what. . . I am required to perform the same physical standards as the entry level people. I’m not suggesting that I can out perform a 20 year old on all fronts but I can hold my own. I am a Captain and performed suppression for 30 of my years here. I am now the HR Captain and I’m still required to maintain my readiness.
Physical fitness is a must. Fire suppression is very physical and more firefighters die each year from heart attacks than any other cause. The over weight firefighter presented a great risk to himself first, secondly his crew and thirdly the public. The department was correct if they sent him for a fitness for duty test. It is not different than if a private business had an employee that lost an ability to perform the essential job functions of his/her job description. Even here in the US being overweight usually as a result of your own life style, does not enjoy a specific job protection.
I wish a fellow firefighter well. I hope a position will be found for him. But his weigh must not become a liability to others.