Can being too good at your job get you fired?
January 29, 2009 by Fred HosierPosted in: Employees do the strangest things, Oh no they didn't, Special Report, Stupid mistakes by employees
A high school girls’ basketball coach was fired after he said he would not apologize for badly beating another team.
Covenant School in Dallas recently defeated Dallas Academy in girls basketball 100-0.
After the game, Covenant, a private Christian school, posted a statement on its Web site regretting the outcome of the shutout: “It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened. This clearly does not reflect a Christlike and honorable approach to competition.” The statement was signed by the school’s headmaster and board chairman.
Covenant Coach Micah Grimes sent an e-mail to The Dallas Morning News that said he didn’t agree with his school’s statement.
He wrote: “I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed. We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity.”
The school’s headmaster would not comment when asked whether Grimes’ firing was connected to his statement to the newspaper.
The score at the half was 59-0. A parent who attended the game said Covenant continued to make 3-pointers even in the fourth quarter.
Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It hasn’t had a win in the last four seasons. The school specializes in teaching students with “learning differences” such as short attention spans or dyslexia.
The Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools doesn’t have a “mercy” rule for girls basketball. However, the association’s director, Edd Burleson said “a golden rule” should have applied in this contest.
According to Burleson, the losing team “showed much more character than the coach that allowed that score to get out of hand. It’s up to the coach to control the outcome.”
Since this case involves a personnel decision which an employer is keeping private, there are details we don’t know — such as exactly why Grimes was fired.
But the situation does raise several questions. Organized sports can provide a means to teach children and teens useful workplace skills, such as teamwork. Do you agree with the fired coach’s decision to allow the score to reach 100-0? Do you agree with the headmaster’s apology? And would sending an e-mail to a newspaper, disputing his boss’ statement, be insubordinate enough to merit firing?
Let us know in the Comments Box below.
Tags: fired, girls basketball, too successful
January 29th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
What’s left out of this piece is that Covenant was still applying full court presses up until the fourth quarter, preventing an inferior opponent to generate scoring. That’s obscene. It also a contrast to the coach’s statement that his values and beliefs would not allow him to run up the score. I’m glad this guy was fired. This is not a case of someone being too good. High school coaches are expected to follow the missions of each league. Clearly, embarrassing another team like that doesn’t follow any mission.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:52 am
My daugther plays AAU and on two travel teams, and we have gotten the pants beaten off of us on a couple of occassions; so what? It happens. Next time you play harder! I’m unsure here what the problem is, if your team loses, your team loses. Are we supposed to feel sorry for this other team because they couldn’t score, or because they’re a ’special needs’ school? If that’s the case, then maybe they shouldn’t be playing basketball with girls that they’re not on the same level as and without learning/mental disabilities. What was the other coach supposed to do, downplay the talent of his team and have them not to play as hard? Just to give the losing team a chance? Wrong. Sounds like the game was played how it’s supposed to be played, and that the other team is sore because they lost in a major way. Like I tell my kid: SUCK IT UP AND PLAY HARDER NEXT TIME!
January 30th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Apologize for beating an inferior opponent big time? You have to be kidding me. The losers in this case were markedly inferior and that is why they lost big time. There are people who feel that no one’s self esteem shouldn’t suffer even when they suck at what they do. I disagree. If you suck at something, and one team did, then they need to either improve or quit, but the winning team shouldn’t be expected to shave points because they owe the losers a good feeling.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Life is not fair and sometimes in life you get embarassed, what is important is that the losing team continued to play. Give it a rest.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:02 am
No! He should not be fired. Winning was the goal. 100 sounds high but high scores are typical in basketball. I’m 47 and remember when we skunt the other team everyone celebrated. Now-a-days instead of the story being how unprepared the losing team was it is how prepared the winning team was and they should be ashamed. What? This is a dangerous trend that has taken root in all aspects of life in America. It is no wonder more and more Americans are becoming dependent on someone else to cover their short comings.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:03 am
It’s high school basketball Coach!! You dont need to win by 100 points to show you are the better team. What he should have done is put in his worst after the first quarter and by the looks of the score they most likely would have won the game by a large margin anyways. Well maybe he will get a real job where he is treated the same way that he treated those kids.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I agree with Brian. I also think what the Headmaster did and said was the right thing to do. Clearly this coach is not very self aware and is definitely not the right man for this job. Sounds like his illusions of grandeur got in the way of common sense and decency. I see employees use subtle insubordination that is sometimes hard to prove, this did not fall into that category! He was insubordinate and did not represent the school, his employer, in an appropriate or professional manner and he should have been terminated.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:08 am
This situation involves a Christian school and it involves sports. The school had a right to fire the coach, because the mission statement of the Christian school no doubt includes foundational values of the Christian faith. Those do not include beating sporting opponents to a pulp and embarrassing high school athletes by going all out to win 100-0. Further, it is thoroughly poor sportsmanship, particularly at the amateur/high school level, for a coach to take this kind of approach. What kind of values does this impart to the students (both on the winning team and the losing team, as well as spectators and students at both schools)? Frankly, the coach was offered an opportunity to apologize before he was fired, and he chose to reject that opportunity. One could make the case he should have been fired period.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I guess we shouldn’t even keep scores – don’t have any defense and let others take open shots until they all make a basket.
Likewise if a sales person is outselling the others on his sales team by huge margins he or she should be chastised and apologize for doing so well compared to the others.
Yeah right!
Thos girls on the losing side learned a valuable life lesson – life is not always easy sometimes you will be soundly defeated but you can accept such outcomes with grace and dignity and try harder next time.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Unfortunately, blowouts are too often a part of team sports. And, they really aren’t fun for the winner or loser. I was from a small school also whose conference didn’t have any teams in our division. This was good when it came to playoffs as you played bigger schools the whole season and gained a ton of experience, but unless you had a ‘good group’, the huge season losses slowly deflate your confidence and that’s what you really need heading into the post-season. Our boys program was involved in a game much like the one above where they were into the 4th quarter at the other team’s home court and our team was down by about 35 or so. They came out with all their starters and were still full-court pressing. Our coach called a time out and told his kids if they still come out in that defense to just hand them the ball…..the kids thought he went a little nuts at first but realized they were not going to win anyway so that’s exactly what happened. They came out of the time out and the defense continued their press defense against us so the out of bounds person handed the ball to the guy pressuring the out of bounds pass….he was so confused, he didn’t know what to do! He was right under his own basket and dribbled away from it. Of course this did not not score any points with the other coach who immediately and sarcastically called the pressure off and proceeded to clear his bench. He actually told our coach that he was the sore loser and in reply our coach said there was nothing sore about it…If you are trying to set some sort of school record or something, then we’re happy to help you get there.
It’s too bad when success becomes an addiction. And don’t get me wrong, Winning is Fun, when you do it right, but in these cases, it certainly isn’t everything.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:19 am
I was outraged when I heard the story on the news regarding the score. I have three children who have all been involved in youth sports and a husband who has coached three different sports. There is no excuse what so ever for what the coach from Covenant allowed to happen. He should be fired. It sends all the wrong messages to the girls on his team. What possible sense of accomplishment could his team have walked away with? While the coach is in charge, the girls need to take a little responsibility for their actions as well. A good player can slow the game down, pass the ball around, etc. You never want to teach a player to stop playing, but teaching them respect for their opponent and how to play when you are so much further ahead, are much better life lessons than running up a score.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:27 am
How would the other team feel if the winning team were to “allow” them to score? Would they feel that it was appropriate? Would that teach them honor? Integrity? I found it very interesting, in every story, the losing school is not upset, they have not won a game in 4 years, and they understand that it is a competition. It is the fans and parents that are embarrassed, not the students.
Either compete or don’t.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:33 am
It the game was fairly played then no apologizes should be necessary.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:33 am
You play a game and either win or lose. If you can’t play well you will lose badly. This is just how life works.
And people wonder why there kids don’t know how to deal with real life?
January 30th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Seems to me the real problem is the skill set of the coach on the losing team.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:39 am
I am tired of these Christ like reasons for telling your players to not give it their all. What would happen if the coach told them to blow the game instead? Don’t these same Christian values call for honesty? To fire the coach is what is not Christ like! Shame on the school.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:40 am
The coach really should have let up on the full court press, and played reserves for the remainder of the game. They should be expected to stop competing, but give some other players on their team a chance to play. If at that point they still put up 100 points, well, they didn’t stop competing but they at least showed some respect to the other team by playing all of their players and not playing stranglehold defense.
As for the coach getting fired, he was insubordinate to his boss and set himself up for it. That seems more of the issue than the outcome of one game. I’m guessing it wasn’t a single incident of insubordination or friction that caused the termination.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Touche Ed
January 30th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Has the opposing coach or school made any comment on this? Seems that piece is missing. Yes, the score was lopsided. The apology was out of line. Did the other school or coach ask for an apology or make a complaint of unfairness? Haven’t heard anything about that.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:46 am
The topic was being too good can get you fired. This guy wasn’t “too good,” if he were he’d still be there. What was his coaching record? How many of his teams went on to post-season victories? This article has nothing to do with being too good.
Hosier strikes again with a misleading article.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:47 am
I agree with Ed and Trace, it is a competition. The losing team could have decided at anytime to call a halt to the game. Would there be the great outcry if Ohio Valley University lost like this during a college game? I do not think so. I hope there was another legitimate reason for firing the coach.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:51 am
He should not have to apologize for “running up the score”, nor should there be ANY retaliatory action taken against the coach in regards to THAT activity. And, since we do not know whats behind the story we will have to wait and see to make a final decision.
It has now been proven that the efforts over the last 20 years by our schools to “build and/or boost” self-esteem have failed miserably. I’m sure that over time efforts to curb bullying will also prove to be a misguided notion. The fact that they (Dallas Academy) were scheduled to play teams (I assume within a division) should indicate that those in charge of these scholastic events felt that Dallas Academy had the capability to play against other teams. If they scheduled Dallas Academy against other teams with the knowledge and fore thought that THEY COULD NOT COMPETE and that the opposing teams should have known to show “mercy” would be unethical as well as cheating. I believe when this is done it is referred to “point-shaving. And I’m sure if the coach of Covenant School did just that he would have been fired for those actions with justification.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:51 am
My coach would never have allowed us to run up such a disgraceful score. The coach is the adult and should have shown his girls true sportsmanship. I would have fired him for failing to meet his obligations to his team.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:51 am
I agree with Ed. Our kids need to learn that things don’t come easily and they need to work at it.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:53 am
I agree with Ed to an extent. At the high school level you should be prepared to get your clock cleaned, and learning to lose is just as important as winning. I’m curious about Covenant’s win record. Do they always win, or was this an opportunity for them to shine? Were the players uncomfortable with the coaching direction? Bet if it was a boys’ high school game, the issue wouldn’t even have come up. Bottom line is when you publicly disagree with your boss, you should probably expect to be fired, whether you’re right or wrong.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Our kids have way too much pressure early on in life to win at all cost and this is just another example of this. It sounds like these 2 schools should have been having a “friendly game” and there should have been some compassion by the winning team. That kind of point spread just isn’t necessary. (Being the Longhorn fan that I am…) I actually respect that Mack Brown doesn’t run up the score; maybe if he did, UT would have been in the national championships instead of OU. Putting in your second or even your third string to level a playing field when a win is obvious is just “the right thing to do”.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Ah, the old “anti-give-everyone-a-trophy-crowd” chimes in. Ed, I love how people pick and choose when (or when not to) compare high school to real life. It’s not and it never has been. So comparing high school athletics to people who do sales for a living is silly.
You want to teach high school kids something? Teach them how to win with class. I bet the next Covenant coach does.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Listen!!! Parents of the losing team need to quit whining about this. It’s a sport. You don’t see the NFL whining when they don’t get any points, you don’t see the TX Rangers whining when they get beat with a score of ZERO, this is real life. I am a very competative mom that has 3 kids in baseball/softball and there have been plenty of games where we have got zero and they other team has scored 15 or 20 runs. As a league, we no longer show the score on the score board after a certain score is reached. However, in the younger leagues like Tee-ball where the 4-6 yr olds don’t understand scoring, we don’t show it at all and the runs are capped at 4 per inning per team. THESE are almost adults, they are kids well into being a teenager and they do not need speacial treatment, this is not kindergarten. The school that claims to teach “special” kids is ADHD, ADD, Dyslexia and so on. I have 2 kids who one has ADD the other has phonilogical dyslexia and it is tough, but babying them is not what I do. The world does not revolve around them and I don’t insist that the league make special rules for my kids, the world doesn’t make speacial rules for grown adults, so with constant conditioning, my boys will make. My boys have excelled at their sport because I made them, I didn’t change the rules for them, so that being said they tried and tried and tried and now have been on the All-Star team at the end of each season for 4 years and they play against other teams and districts for a shot to play in the Little League World Series. Get Over It!!! You guys act they beat a team full of mentally retarded kids that are in special olympics.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:58 am
I have been in this very situation. The youth soccer team I coached was a very good team. At one point we were ranked 2nd in our state. I always want to play better competetion so I sought out tournaments in other states to go to. I applied to one tournament in a neighboring state only to have the committe call me to ask if we were really any good – I told them we were considered a “Premire – Top Level” team and they replied “Ok – we just wanted to be sure you could really compete”. Well when we got to the tournament the first game was 4-0 after the frist 15 minuts. So I sent in all my subs – the game was 8-0 by half time. So I told my players they had to play two touch soccer – then one touch etc. 15 minuts into the 2nd half if was 10-0. So what is the coach suposed to do – we played keep away from the other team but after 5 minutes of them not touching the ball it was humiliating – so what do you do? It is easy to be critial towards the coach but what was he to do? I place the blame of the Ahtletic Director for scheduling a weak team. In my case the tounament only allowed us to come because they could say they attracted a “Permier Team” – they had no thought to what would happen to the other teams that showed up.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:00 am
What was Grimes thinking? — I work for a corporation….if my CEO issues a statement that I disagree with — and I fire off an email to the Dallas Morning News — I would be fired too.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:03 am
School is not about fun it is there to prepare our children for life in the real world. Where else are they going to learn those lessons? I think it is crap that homework doesn’t have to be completed if it takes more than a certain time frame for each grade level. You will not get that at your job – You get done what you are assigned to do or find another job.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I agree with Ed, Trace, Albert Roark & Ed…It’s a competition!
January 30th, 2009 at 11:15 am
If the winning team displayed poor sportsmanship during the game – jeering and making fun of their opponents lack of skill – that is not ok – however, if they won fair and square why is everyone acting so upset about this? I agree with the previous person that said – why bother keeping score then? If losing makes you feel too bad, then stay home – that goes for the parents and the players. I’ve attended other ‘blow out’ games such as these and have seen the winning coach put in the players that are not as good to help balance things out. I don’t believe that the coach should be teaching the players to play less of a game out of pity. Players should always play their best – regardless if their side is winning or not. Give this coach and this team a break.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Well, Brian, I agree with Ed and Trace, If you compete, you compete to win and usually it is the
parents that are complaining, while the children are out playing together and don’t remember
any thing about the game the next day.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:17 am
All too often when I play games or sports with my children (6 and 10) I hear that they want to quit or want me not to try so hard so they can “win like at school”. This current “caring” about a child’s self esteem is doing them a disservice.
I pointed out a commercial for Dyson Vacs to my children when it was on where Mr. Dyson mentioned that he and his engineers failed over 4,000 times when trying to make their vaccume and he liked that becuase it was over 4,000 chances to learn something new!
I always play my best againstn my young children because they get better by playing against something above their level and I re-inforce that with them time and time again. I don’t care if I win – I want my children to have to earn their victories.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:19 am
What kind of values are we teaching our children (our future leaders, etc) if this man was fired because they followed the rules and played as they should have played. Yes, it is not nice that the score was so high, however as long as both teams played by the rules and played to the best of their ability, that is the most important thing. If in the course of play the score became high, that is simply life, we should not apologize for things like this. This type of mixed up nonsense is exactly why you have confused children that go around shooting people in schools.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:21 am
As children grow up they have life lessons and this situation is one of those life lessons. We as adults can not shield our children from what can be seen as failure. The losing team’s coach should use this loss as a learning experience. The team fell down, but they can get back up and learn from the mistakes they made during the game. They should ask themselves how and why did the other team win. What are their techniques? What is their strategy? The losing team should review games of other winning teams and pick up some tips on how to win. It feels great to win and it does not feel so good to lose, but this is apart of life.
Failure is envitable in our lives, but we need to fail in order to grow and learn. If the winning team’s coach was fired for his comments then I think that is wrong. What lessons are we really teaching our children?
January 30th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I wrote “parents of the losing team need to quit whining”, and they have not, it’s the news media that is reporting that this winning team was out of line and then people on message boards have been critical of them and their coach. I mispoke on the parents of the losing team. Sorry. Fact doen still remain that we can not baby our children and then expect them to run this country one day. That is the exact reason we have “re-distribution of the wealth” going on right now in this country, because one person didn’t think it was fair that someone make more money or have more anything that they thought it was worth challenging it.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:29 am
I am one that believes that you should never ‘let kids win’ as life is tough and you do have to work hard to succeed, which is the good thing about team sports…..you win some, you lose some and you have to learn to deal with both. Blowouts are not fun for either team but they are reality and you do learn from them…..coaches have a tough job there’s no doubt but there is a difference between a blowout and an all out humiliation…..the same lesson could have been learned at a 50-zero score….
January 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Brian, Ed was not comparing real life to high school. The comparison was of real life competition, period. Whether that competition is in SPORTS or in the WORKFORCE is irrelevant if you are teaching that in every aspect of life where someone wins, there will be someone who loses; so always strive to win but be a good loser. It is far more painful to have always won in the past, and then all of a sudden you are placed in a position where you lose. So, my question is if we do not teach our children about real life in high school (or middle school, or elementary school), then when exactly should we start teaching them about real life? Once they are in it? It would be a complete injustice to our children to withhold the value of competition and the reality of win/lose until a better time – maybe a time when they can always win. Ed’s comparison is valid.
On another note, to have pitted these two teams against each other is not the fault of the coach but of the administration that developed the game schedule. It is obvious the losing team should be in a different division competing against teams of similar abillities. You wouldn’t put Covenent School against a college level team. If the teams had been of similar abilities this would be a non-issue.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
I have to agree with Ed on this. It’s right up there with not allowing kids to play anything competitive on the playground because there might be a loser. Brian, Ed was attempting to link this back into a HR situation…and I have to ask this question. Have you ever played any competitive sport? If you have, then you would know there are many things you learn in sports that you can take with you in a professional environment. Primarily, how do you overcome opposition to attain a goal, team work and respecting the abilities of your opponent. There’s logistics involved. Selling products involve the sales person understanding not only his/her own product, but also the competition. That’s how one can have an advantage…putting your company at the top…and that’s how companies increase revenue.
That being said, the HR issue here is if the coach was a victim of being terminated unfairly. I do not believe we have enough information here to make that determination. If the coach was hired to win, that’s what he did. If what he did was against some kind of “ethics” code? Not according to Burleson. However, he said the “golden rule” should have been applied. The golden rule, of course being do to others what you would want done to you…
We know the Dallas them had players on it that had “learning differences.” Did Covenant also have those type of players? If not, it was unfair to begin with to put these two teams together for competition. Based on the information above, the coach was doing his job, if any one should have been fired, it should have been whoever set these two teams up to play against each other…could that have been Burleson?
January 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
It comes down to this. When the coach of a high school team has the same mindset as the team, this is what happens, and it’s pathetic. The fact that this article is entitled “Could Being Too Good at Your Job Get You Fired”, is absurd. According to this logic, the Covenant coach must be the greatest basketball coach ever.
It seems that some people don’t understand the difference between competing, and disrespecting your opponent, and that’s the problem the Covenant coach had.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
To Private Party:
I can’t believe this is getting political. Give it rest.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
COME ON GUYS!!! WE DON’T FIRE NFL COACHES FOR BEATING THE OTHER TEAM, WE DON’T FIRE HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACHES FOR WINNING WHY SHOULD WE FIRE A BASKETBALL COACH FOR WINNING. WHETHER THE SCORE WAS 10-0 OR 100-0 – COACHES ARE SUPPOSED TO COACH THEIR TEAMS AND STRIVE TO WIN!! I HOPE THE FIRED COACH FINDS A NEW JOB AND A NEW TEAM TO COACH AND PLAYS COVENANT AND WINS 200-0! MAYBE THE OTHER COACH SHOULD BE FIRED FOR NOT SCORING AT ALL – APPARENTLY HE ISN’T DOING HIS JOB EITHER.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Jodi
Me you and a few others are the ones that think that you should never “let kids win”. That’s why we have an overload of welfare recipients. They think the US owes it to them.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:35 am
To Private Party:
Please stop making this political. Give it a rest already. Not everyone can make $100,000.00 a year and with the way the economy is, who can live off of minimum wage without some help. Not every one can afford college to make themselves better so don’t go down that road either.
This has nothing to do with politics.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Actually – this does have something to do with polotics.
They way you are raised and taught and the experiences that you go through in life shape your political points of view.
The more society teaches children that they don not have to compete (work) to win (get paid) the more . . . .
January 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
To Cindy
I was making a comparison if we always let all kids win and not ever keep score as to what would happen when they grow up and try to run the country.
I defended you…you must be one of the ones who think all kids should get a trophy…
BUT did you or did you not have a comment on this story….
You give it a rest
January 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
To Cindy
I was making a comparison if we always let all kids win and not ever keep score as to what would happen when they grow up and try to run the country.
If I defended you…you must be one of the ones who think all kids should get a trophy…
BUT did you or did you not have a comment on this story….
You give it a rest
January 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
I tend to look at both sides in situations like this.
I believe agree that children should be taught values in the home and in school. All through life I was taught that it’s not if you win or lose, but how you play the game. I don’t see how the kids on the winning team could have any sense of pride in beating the kids on the other team knowing the other team was disadvantaged.
I have never seen an olympic athlete competing with special olympic athletes in real competition. Why would a school would be made to play against another team that was clearly more skilled? What’s up with the decision of the school and the coach that was on the losing team to allow that to happen? I don’t understand it, however, their could be a lot more to the story that we are not aware of.
As a former HR Manager I can understand why an employee often gets terminated. The coachs employer made a decision and, apparently, he did not abide by their decision. If people think about it in these terms: If YOU were the employer that made a decision based on your beliefs and you have an employee go against your beliefs what would you do? Employers have their rights as well. You may have different beliefs then the school, however, those are the beliefs of this particular school and the coach should abide and respect the employer who gives him a paycheck.
The coach has the right to disagree in a private setting and also has the right to resign should he disagree with their philosophy. At that point he could have submitted a letter to the newspaper.
I think that there should be some type of guidelines for coaches before they get into those situations. We’ve all seen that happen at some point in a sporting event.
Obviously none of us on this site have all the facts. Working in HR for 20 years I know that there is a lot more information behind every termination that other people do not have access to. The coach may have thought that winning the game was the right thing, however, it does not appear the coach was terminated for winning the game against a lesser skilled team. It appears the school may have fired the coach for contradicting their basic beliefs in a public statement.
I don’t necessarily agree with the outcome of the game, however, I can understand the reasoning behind terminating an employee who contradicts an employer.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:40 am
To Ed:
Hmmm….guess that explains why I know of a family where one child works for the CIA and makes extremely good money and the other is on food stamps. Same parents.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:41 am
To Cindy – Were one of your kids on the losing team or something? What is with you?
January 30th, 2009 at 11:44 am
The winning team played better than the losing team. Period. To belittle them for doing their best is counterproductive. No doubt they have lost too. You learn to deal with life’s variations as a kid and you turn out to be a much better adult. Too bad the principal never learned how to be a responsible adult.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Oh my! I’ve read all of the comments. I competed in gymnastics and track and went to state while at a Division I high school. I’ve coached volleyball for many years. I am very, very competitive and I love to win. But, my coaching philosophy has always been that we are teaching more than a game. We are teaching good sportsmanship, being a good team mate and being a person of integrity. I teach them to have respect for them selves, their teammates, the officials, the other coach and most especially the team they are competing against. If you don’t show respect for the other team and show the other attributes I mentioned, even if you have the winning score – you are not a winner, you are an arrogant bully. You have used your gifts and talents and tarnished them. I would have played my bench, tried some plays that we have been working on in practice, put players in positions they don’t normally get to play. They still needed to give their best effort, because just horsing around and not trying would have been a sign of disrespect also. Also, being a Christian school, did require them to display Christ-like values towards the other team. Christians should be in the world but not of the world. They should be noticed for how they are different. They are Christians first – athletes second, but one does not preclude being successful at the other.
Wow, I could go on, but I won’t. Thanks for letting me share.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:44 am
I agree that the game should have been played as it was…no special treatment. I just don’t think you can make this situation a political issue. I would never want my children playing by special rules. I believe you do have to work hard in life to get ahead and you should be self supported. THis is how I live my life and want my children too also. But I think some posters are totally getting off the subject and turning things around to politics.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Y’all need to quit making this “personal”! I do not think kids should get “participation” trophies (even in Little League) so they feel “special” and I don’t think Covenant should have “allowed” the Dallas team to score points. It just wasn’t necessary to run the score up to a 100 points.
Now from an HR standpoint, I agree with Gina…
I don’t think the coach here was really fired for running up the score. I think they were fired for their public display of disagreement with their boss!
January 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Everything is political! I agree with Ed on this. Who you are, How you think, Where you were raised, Who your parents are, Where you work, Where you live, etc. Most times we can not choose you parents, but we pretty much have a lot of control over many things in our lives.
Cindy, you are right not everyone can make a $100,000.00 and in some place in the U.S. that is not enough money to live, but we should always encourage our children to try hard and do their best. I am not saying put undue pressure on our children, but encourage them and guide them.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Thank you Ed, you are exactly right. I was raised very BLUE COLLAR, I didn’t get a day off from school or spring break, I went to work for my dad’s company and did whatever a kid could do that a master jouneyman didn’t need to do. I have great work ethics and when I grew up, I knew I wanted more for my own kids than my parents gave to me and I obtained it. Not saying my parents didn’t try, just that I made it better and I hope that my kids make it better for my grandkids than I did for them and so on.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
To Cindy –
That is becuase an issue ALWAYS applies to EVERY situation –
oh wait that is not true!
And I know a family where one kid . . . A feckless annecdotal point at best.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
I happened to see the “loosing” team on Good Morning America and would like to point out that they are an amazing group of young women. Rather than grumble or complain they were incredibly gracious and showed great sportsmanship!!! That they love the game and appreciate the opportunity to participate in it was quite obvious. There are a number of comments contained here from people who obviously do not have all the facts and these young women should not be bad mouthed when they did nothing wrong, nor have participated in stirring up this issue. Keep it among the “grown-ups” where it must obviously belong! These girls are all winners in my book.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:50 am
I find it nearing the ridiculous to chastise the winning team for playing well. They showed team work and drive. There isn’t really enough of that nowadays as we, society continue to breed and teach an entitled youth. Losing is part of learning as is winning. I find it deplorable, the parenting prevalent in all walks of life today that continue to raise children with no sense of responsibility for their actions and decision making. These girls won, they should be celebrating rather than apologizing that the other team lost badly. The other team will simply have to improve and ‘earn’ (I know a foreign concept) a better run next time. It has probably caused more embarrassment to the losing team at this point that so many are making such a big deal out of this loss.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:50 am
To run up the score on a team players with “learning differences” indicates the coach nees to learn a few things. When did it first occur to Mr. Grimes’ that his team clearly outclassed their competition? When it was 59-0 at halftime? There are several tactics Covenant could have employed to keep the game under control: stall ball, where they let the shot clock expire without a shot; putting in the 2nd string. Winning by such a margin over such inferior competition shows poor sportsmanship and a sad lack of values. Mr. Grimes could have guided his team to victory with more dignity and compassion. He has none; he should be fired.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:51 am
I do not know High School basketball rules that are in effect these days. However, rather than the winning team take some kind of action, couldn’t the losing team concede before the score got so high? There are a lot of unknowns here, so its hard to comment when all facts are not given. The firing of the coach may have happened based on cumulative offenses rather than that one thing.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Hey Johnny – do you hire people with ADD and ADHD and then expect less of them?
January 30th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Mike has said it best. It’s all about respect as far as the game goes and why some of us disagree with running the score up. The termination however should have been for the insubordination, public or otherwise.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:55 am
If the winning team did not taunt, ridicule or make fun of the other team then they won with respect!
January 30th, 2009 at 11:55 am
It would not surprise me to see that most of the games that the school has lost are by large amounts. However, the 100 pt margain seems to be focus. What about the teams that won by 50, 60 or 80 points. It is sad that the school has decided to put a team together that has not won in the last 4 years. The point is that this team is going to get wiped every game. The group that goes about doing what they should which is too play hard and win is now the problem. Did I hear people ask for Coach’s stoops (OU) job because he beat 5 consequetive opponents in a row by 60 points which is a record for NCAA Football. I think he was applauded for having a superior team. Your job is to win and continue to play hard all the way to the end. Sometimes you will win big and sometimes you will be trahsed by your opponents. That is sports. I agree with the other comments regarding the sad affiars in this country which we now should apoligize for winning and winning big. He should not have been fired nor forced to make an apology. I think it is sad that the other school puts those girls in a pitiful situation where they can’t win. Move them to a different division where the skill set is better suited.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:57 am
I agree he shouldn’t have been insubordinate but should he have apologized if he didn’t mean it because he thought his team played a fair, honest game? Kind of a tough situation. He shouldn’t of had to apologize. Period.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Leave the guy alone……..He was doing a job he was hired to do and if he was doing it better than the other coach, SO WHAT!!!! Basketball is a competitive sport and is meant to be played as a such. If I was Dallas Academy, I would be firing that coach. No wins in the last 4 seasons. And they are paying this coach?????????? Congrats to the winners of this game. You were being competitive.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Cindy
I can’t help it if you know someone who makes minimum wage and needs help, I can’t help if they didn’t pull their heads out of you know where to make good enough grades to get a college scholarship, I can’t help that, I didn’t say I went to college, I didn’t say I made $100,000 a year and I guess you need to shut up because I simply made a comparison, I didn’t make it political, you whinny whinny whinny whinny person…
January 30th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Ed – No, but we’re not talking about the workplace here. We’re talking about HIGH SCHOOL where we are supposed to be helping to teach our kids about values such as dignity, respect, honor and fair competition. Shooting 3-pointers in the 4th quarter and winning 100-0 accomplishes none of this. It sound to me that after 59-0 at halftime, the coach had two goals: score 100 points and shut out their opponent. I agree that we shouldn’t coddle our kids, but we don’t need to take advantage of their “deficiencies” either.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
To Private Party:
And you are bitter for some reason
January 30th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I would like to ask anyone who thinks the coach was right to run up the score to answer this question: What could the Covenant coach HAVE done to disrespect the other team?
Have we all forgotten what the term “respect” means?
Heather: he wasn’t fired for winning. Have you watched a lot of Professional football? When professionals feel like they are being disrespected, they fight back. Whenever an NFL team or College team runs up a score, it’s always talked about.
I would bet that those who speak of running up scores as being a good thing are the ones that never made it past high school athletically.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Because we are paying from our hard work, taxes to suport people who do not work as hard.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Isn’t there a saying that goes “…winning isn’t everything. It’s how you win that counts!”. In the sport of boxing, we stop the fight after the opponent is soundly beaten.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
My daughter is a less skilled player on an undefeated HS JR-varsity team. When we are up by 10, our couch pulls out his starters and puts in his second string. If we remain up by 10, he then stops full court press, stops breakaways, and requires a specific play, a hard play they’re still learning in practice. and he requires that play, over and over. What does it do? gives the defense a chance to anticipate and learn and break us, and our team a chance to use it as a drill and a learning experience. Suddenly the game is a challenge for our girls again, and the defenders have a chance to be involved. If the score starts getting close again, he will then ease back to ‘more normal play’ routines. We’ve never lost a game using this approach, and he is improving his teams’ depth and skills while also making the game interesting for all involved.
I’m not saying this is how every coach “has” to act. I’m just providing an example of how both sides of the argument could successfully be met, and how a coach could act with the integrity the school district called for while still also requiring his players to give their best AND improving his team in the process. It is also a chance for him to grow his bench and develop his future top JV players.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I agree the coach should have backed off. A recent thing happened to my neice in Vermont. She is a great basketball player she was about to score her 1000th carreer point and with a minute and half left in the game. The gym was full of hometown fans and the team they were playing was losing by 20 points. The opposing coach had her triple teamed just so she wouldn’t acheive the 1000 point threshold. A little bit different situation but the opposing team was not going to win the game. The opposing coach was being a jerk.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
I do NOT believe that welfare should be a way of life but I DO believe people need help now and then. I also believe that if you are on welfare, you should be performing some community services free of charge. I don’t think some of you posters understand what I’m saying.
But again, it’s all off the subject. The game was fairly played and no one should of had to apologize.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
I sucked at all sports when I was a kid – I still suck at almost everything – I do not cry and whine for special compensation and never did. I didn’t find out until I was in my mid 30s that I am pretty good at distance running and now I am getting after it.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
The horse is dead let’s go back to work.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Ok, if a district sets up the game schedule they don’t go by the degree of how you play the game. That school clearly agreed to game well before the game was ever played. They know (and if they don’t the can find out) what the stats are on a team. If they thought they were out of their league they should have said something. Also just because they have learning disabilities doesn’t mean they can’t play a game. There are many schools out there that have low GPA’s and great game skills.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Never stopped working – just reply when a post pops up in my e-mail. It helps me move quicker through my work – my brain is in thinking/ multi-tasking mode that way.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I marvel that the headmaster said that the game wasn’t “Christlike”. In Paul’s letter to the Romans, Chapter 5, beginning in verse 3: “…but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.” Throughout all of christendom, from the first days until now, Perseverence is the motto that best defines Evangelical Christians. Would the players of the losing team learn anything from the game if the other team had just quit playing after the end of the first half? Jesus gave no quarter to the money changers in the Temple, because they were doing wrong. Is the coach wrong for encouraging his team to use their gifts and abilities to win the game? What would Jesus do? If He were playing basketball, He would play his hardest to win, and when the game was over, He would take the opportunity to mentor, encourage and teach those who lost. Certainly Jesus wouldn’t let someone else win because he felt sorry for their inferior skills. There is neither redemption or glory in that!
January 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Agreed Don, Back to work it is. Maybe we should tell Cindy so she knows when to give her friend a ride to the free clinic to get those handouts that Obama’s giving out to all the illegal aliens and planned parenthood.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
To Private party:
I work hard for a living as does my family and friends. But I also have compassion for people down on their luck. What happened to yours? I’m going back to work also. Good-bye
January 30th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Since there was a Christian point in all of this –
Give a man a fish and you feed him for the day- Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a life time!
January 30th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
To Private Party and Cindy:
You all need to find a place to duke it out other than here. This is not a “personal” or “political” debate. This is about an overzealous Headmaster who thinks they have to apologize for beating a team that wasn’t that good to start with. The coach was right in doing what he did by not being forced to apologize. Why should he. If the Headmaster was embarrased, then he should have gone to Dallas Academy and personally apologized. He should not have made it sound like it was the view of the whole school. Okay, Cindy and Private Party……..focus on the issue at hand!
January 30th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
TX Bureaucrat: So should I, as a Christian, tempt my wife, to help her work on perseverance? Should I, as a Christian, belittle someone to help them build character? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The losing team did persevere, and that’s a blessing. But no one sins out of duty. To say that Christ would have run up the score, used full court press on an obviously inferior team, JUST BECAUSE HE COULD, is ridiculous.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I have compasion, just not for those looking for a free handout and free foodstamps when I see those free users making a deal in the parking lot of the local grocery store for 50 cents on the dollar and selling our tax dollars out the window. Or having another baby after having 6 and being in your 40’s so they can renew their 2 yr limit on welfare per kid. Did you take a drug test to get your job? Then maybe we should aks the federal government to drug test thier welfare recepients, I know there are several people walk into the grocery store, LONESTAR card in hand (thats Texas’ foodstamp debit card), and throw a joint out right after they get out of the car. Weird huh. You’re not even worth replying to anymore, you must be a dem!!!!
January 30th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Hey Ed,
“Build a man a fire and he’s warm for a few hours. Set a man on fire and he’s warm for the rest of his life.” Thought you’d get a kick out of that…..
January 30th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Thanks for the laugh – I never heard that before and I will use it when the opportunity presents itself.
Thanks for the smile -
January 30th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Every game has a winner and a loser. It’s a competition, just like life. As long as the game was played, and celebrated, in a sportsmanlike manner, I don’t see why an apology is necessary. I did not attend the game, so I can not speak to the behavior or attitudes of the winning team. If they were bullies about it, by all means, apologize. Otherwise, give a high five to the opposing team and move on.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
To Allen
Ms Cindy is the one who originally aimed directly at me, I just replied in my defense. Go back to the beginning and see my originall comment was actually useful. Hers, I’m not so sure.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Win at all costs? If “doing his job” is all about winning no matter what, then running up the score with full-court press and shooting 3-pointers up to the end of the game should also allow for cheating, breaking rules, intimidation, and browbeating your players, right? Because it’s not necessary to win 100-0 to post a win, is it? There is no excuse for his behavior, and he was insubordinate. The Christian school has a right to its mission, and if a coach violates that school’s Christian mission, and is insubordinate and refuses to apologize when offered the opportunity, then the employer has every right to fire him.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
RT -
How the heck is playing hard “win at all costs”? I’ll tell you – It is NOT even remotely close to win at all costs. Maybe you should be a trophy for all the girls on that team that got their butts kicked – that will help you feel like you did something to help their self-esteem.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Several years ago I was managing a Pony League baseball team in California on a military base. I ran into another coach from Malibu and he wanted to know if we would like to scrimmage his team to give them some practice. From the time they showed up to game, they were obviously the best team there just by the way the played. The score was quite similar to this Basketball game score. My boy’s feelings were hurt, they were down in the dumps, they felt beat up by the neighborhood bullies. I worked with them, moved players around so that I had the right person in the right spot on the right bus. Later in the season the same coach approached me at a game and wanted to know if I wanted to play him again. I was hesitant, but my boys wanted to. I tried to talk them out of it, but they wanted to. So we scheduled another game. They were so fired up that we took it on, scored a few runs, but they still beat us – not as badly though. As a matter of fact, we gave them a run for their money. I let the boys play whatever they wanted to. They ran the game. I was there pretty much to watch. It was the best they ever played. To this day, I am still very proud of them… The Reds from Point Mugu.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
It looks like this response list is the longest I have seen in recent times. This is a very interesting dilema. Children with disabilities are played against children without disabilities. Has this never occurred before? The WIN is that all the children played the entire game. It is a struggle for administrators/coaches and those in authority to determine whether the game should be ( in the future) played as any other, playing their best on both sides, or playing as a gift of kindness when clearly opposing teams could not compare in the same league. A coach who deals with children without disabilities has taught all along to “DO YOUR BEST,” and wanted to be back and white , treating all teams the same, sending one message to “DO YOUR BEST.” Administrators and others in authority did not anticipate or perhaps previously experience this type of situation in the past. The turmoil in the public arena could all have been avoided by instead of chastizing the coach to commend all the children who played, and celebrate the stamina, dedication and commitment of all the children who played that day.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Thank You Ray! You were a good coach. Concerned about your team but let them learn – wow what a concept.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
This article isn’t about the decision the Coach made – good or bad – to play hard until his team beat the other one 100-0. It’s about what happened afterwards.
Regardless of whether you think the head administrator of the school was right or wrong in his representation that the team was “un-Christian” (or whatever), it was his prerogative to take as the top official of the school.
The coach, who works for this official, instead of attempting to resolve a difference in opinion in-house, took the matter directly to the press without permission. He publicly embarassed the adminstration of the school by breaking ranks. As an employee, he had no right or authority to do so. Freedom of speech or “whistle-blowing” does not enter into the debate here, as this is – on its face – NOT a matter of public import involving the government or law.
His actions, irrespective of whether you agree with them, amounted to insubordination, and it cost him his job. I hope he believes it was worth it, because that was a high price to pay to have his countervailing opinion about a private matter aired in the press.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Apparently, this coach has not heard that there’s a new sheriff in town named Obama. Each game from now on will end with each team having the exact same score. Why should we reward hard work and practice – let’s spread the wealth.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
This is not about win or lose. This is about team values and personal values that the coach has, at least in part, influence over. Mr. Grimes, knew the opponent, Dallas Academy, and I suspect their ability as well. If we take into consideration the fact that he knew the team was not of equal caliper and his so called personal values one would assume that he might have started the game using his least capable players. The mentality of a coach however, is to tactically guide the team to victory, regardless of the challengers ability. In some cases to throw the game or shed points can be viewed as an insult to those who truly want to compete but, as a society we all want to be at least on a level playing field. Winning over an inferior competitor isn’t victory, it’s simply taking advantage of a situation knowing the likely outcome.
The spirit of sports is to learn that competition is healthy and compassion is part of the human condition we develop from our experiences and personal values. To lose with dignity is to retain ones pride and courage to compete – Dallas Academy had a score of “0″ but, they walked away as winners.
As for Mr. Grimes I don’t think he should have been fired on the grounds he disagee’d with school officials or because he refused to apologize. He had nothing to apologize for other than a lack of compassion.
The sad part is that Covenant brought the schools and their respective students into the picture and failed to recognize the experience that Dallas Academy had. Having worked with challenged students I know they work hard, play hard and recognize the playing field in life isn’t always level. The courage they display in dealing with adversity everyday and accepting it makes them all, by default winners. Appauld their efforts, the desire to compete and their courage to stay the path.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
That is becuase in Boxing death or permanent brain injury occurs! Not even a fair comparison.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
While we’re all straying so far afield, anyone see any parallels with the American Auto bailout? Might as well go there…. Hey, plain and simple, (1) if the other team and coach have a complaint then they should be listened to. If not, then leave it alone. I don’t know if they did or didn’t. (2) If the coach violated his school’s rules by speaking out – right or wrong – then he should be fired. If not, then he shouldn’t. Ethics – personal and business – sometimes collide. Especially with policies. (3) The coach’s employer might have wanted to take more time to make decisions about who gets fired and why. We will never know. Sports are not life and you can’t base your view of life simply on what happens in this small an arena. Don’t any of you people have jobs to get back to? Oh – and about the bailout – do we want to make Toyota apologise to Chrysler because they sell more cars? Or just give the US car companies the money so they don’t have to think about the ’score’ or competition.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Now that I’ve stated what the article is really about…
My personal view is always play hard, play fair, and play to the end. If the score’s 100-0, so be it.
But I do wonder about one thing…where were the refs? Isn’t there supposed to be some kind of “mercy-rule” at the high school level. I never saw it invoked when I played, but I vaguely remember that it existed…?
January 30th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
1,000 points is an arbitrary number and means nothing. 999 points or 998 is just as good. Too many people look for bench marks at even numbers. I would be dang proud of the scoring ability of your niece.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
As a coach of recreational soccer, I have mixed feelings on this. Everyone has their good points and their bad points. My opionion would have to be based on how the game was played and how the treated the other team. Did they belittle the other team for losing, was their good sportsmanship, that kind of thing. Unfortunately the article doesn’t really go into that part, just the score.
I’ve had seasons were my team didn’t win a game and we were blown out of the water, but we felt good about how we played. I’ve also had seasons where we were undefeated. Same group of kids. Sure it hurts to lose every game, but the important thing is that we did our best and work harder where we need to work harder. On the other side, it even hurts when you beat a team to the extent of the basketball team in question when you can see that the other team tried their best.
As a coach, if we are beating a team that bad, I take the opportunity to use the experience as a learning tool. We concentrate more on technique and less on scoring. We also use this to really help the less experienced members of the team by setting them up on the field in situations to help them build their confidence. Once I’ve done that, I feel good about how the game was played even if we did beat them by an outrageous margin.
It’s not fair to make your experienced members “sit the bench” because your team is better than the other. What if every team in a season was not as good as your team; your better players would never get a chance to play. How do you think it makes the other team feel if you hand them the ballgame every time? Maybe good once, but after awhile it wouldn’t feel that good. What we need to be teaching our kids is that it’s important to do your best whether it is in sports, school, or life. There is always going to be someone out there who beats you in a game, gets the position you wanted, makes more money, etc. We should be teaching our kids that it is more important in how you react to these situations when they happen, not necessarily the outcome. No matter if you were the one to win or the one to lose.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
As a former basketball player that played at the very highest competition levels (except for the NBA), I have mixed feelings about this whole story. On the one hand, the great coaches coach to perfection. That is the ultimate standard regardless of who you play. That is the only way to ensure that your kids play hard every night. That’s why coaches often yell at players when the team is up 20 with 5 seconds to play. On the other hand, I wasn’t always an exceptional player and I remember getting embarrased on many occassions while playing the game I loved. It was a tough lesson for me but it’s one I’m glad I experienced at a young age because I learned to work harder and never quit or back down from anyone. As a parent, I can only imagine the pain that those Dallas Academy kids felt by having had that experience. What if it were your kid getting trapped in the backcourt and turning the ball over or getting scored on constantly. That can be devastating for a kid at that age. Those kids deserved better than that…no matter what side of the fence your on.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
I find it disturbing that so many so called “HR Professionals” on this board cannot see what this is clearly all about. Some have compared this game with the NFL or Division 1 football games. They’ve compared adult competition with high school [children] competition. They thrown in different venues as if that should make any difference. The clear issue is the coach from a private Christian school playing in a private Christian league and leading/coaching Christian children allowed himself to display hostile, hateful and demon influenced behavior! He deliberately broke the rules, compromised the principles of the Christian school, was sadistic in running up the score, shooting 3 pointers and embarrassing the children of the losing team; he DESERVED to be fired! Again, this was a private Christian league, not a ghetto or white trailer trash league where trash talking, sexually remarking about someone’s mother, sister or girlfriend or using one’s body as a message board [tatoos] is the norm.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
John, you have to be saying that to get a reaction. Demon influenced behavior?? Do you realized in the same paragraph you condemned people for comparing childeren (HS) sport with pro sport…and in the same breath, they are demon influenced??? Take a pill, so called HR Professional! If you get this worked up, making perceived judgements of character, you should be fired.
Bottom line is, whoever put these teams together should be questioned. We don’t have enough information to decide if the coach was wrongfully terminated.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Poor Dear John: demon influenced behavior??!! What article did you read? Get a clue. I teach my kid to play to win, and when she doesn’t, it’s a part of life, she gets over it. You’re out in left field somewhere! Sounds like you need a jagged little pill to calm your nerves.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
John:
I stopped posting because of posters going off the subject but your post is disturbing to me as an HR Professional and a person.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Thanks Ed. On another note, if I remember right, the rules in Little League were if you were up by 10 runs, no matter what inning, that was game time. However, if scheduled outside of Little League play, then runs were as achieved. Thanks again Ed.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I don’t know all the facts about this game, the coach, or the actual reason he was fired. However, reading through the comments here I can say that it’s an amazing display of trends in American society People telling the losing team to “suck it up”, comparing this situation with the NFL, saying that the losing team should just quit if they can’t compete, etc. I have played sports at the high school, college, and amateur league levels and have coached kids soccer and softball. I have always thought that coaches of kids’ teams, whether in the local rec league or in high school and college, should be teaching their players more than just how to be the best players they can be and to win games. They should teach teamwork, sportsmanship, compassion, and about doing the right thing.. Sometimes doing the right thing means starting and playing the kids who normally sit on the bench, using the game as a chance to try new positions, or to work on new plays. Defeating the opponent by as wide a margin as possible probably does not nothing more productive than feed their egos and teach them that winning is everything, which it isn’t…
January 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Thank you dritchie. At last, a fellow athlete who knows the higher you go in sports, the more respect there is for opponents and officials alike.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
How about this –
From a coaching perspective – at what other time coould his starters have practiced shooting threes at the end of a game in a game situation that it would not cost them the game. What if this winning team had a legit shot at going to and winning State, but drawing near tyhe end of the game couldn’t hit the threes because they had little game time experience of hitting that shot at the end of the game. Now they would have lost a state title so that a while back a team with little skill could not feel as bad.
This was just a whit if scenario – I am not saying this is the case.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
The respect is forced at those levels – hence the taunting penalty in the NFL. Do not kid yourselves – You are not nor were ever pro because you worried about hurting your competitions feelings.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Holy Cow – did you guys even read the article? They only have a few kids in the entire school and they have learning disabilities, and you run the score up on them? Bogus! Some people are comparing this to “sales” and the “NFL”. GET A GRIP. I can’t believe how cold some of you are (or clueless). A life lesson? That’s not a life lesson – it’s a b.s. high school sporting event. Life lessons are learning how to be kind to each other or not kicking someone when they are down. Those are real life lessons people and this team had a chance to pratice them and failed.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I have seen numerous coaches at much higher levels of competition show more class than this high school coach showed.
Apparently there is some brain-freeze for some folks:
1. You do NOT need to win 100-0 to be successful.
2. This situation involved a private Christian school. Frankly, anyone who claims to be Christian and also eggs on behavior like this (running up the score on opponents, full-court press and 3-pointers until the very end) ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if that kind of attitude is Christian.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I don’t know abou the posts more recently… I started scrolling after reading all of the “its a game, its competition”, and/or other cliches of a “pissing contest”… in this case, it seems that one person stands and the other sits, whether or not both coaches are male is beside my point.
Corrective action could have served this situation better. Firing may have been a bit dramatic for a lopsided score, but sensitivity training, or documentation that a conversation was had for this kind of play. Full-court press through all four quarters? Continuance of play of starters?
I don’t know what or how the game transpired, but certainly a degree of compassion after “testing” different schemes, or plays, or players… But when it is obvious the other team is outclassed or talently challenged, how do you measure “good players”? On an even playing field, we’d chalk it up to the other team having an off day… but 4 years with a losing record? It seems that spirited play only means Win at any cost, even the cost of your dignity when you have to “rub it in” on a team that could use a bit of encouragement and possibly build character in all players in showing a bit more sportsmanship with supporting the other team, even the smallest bit? 100-0… Mercy rules should be considered in a game that is more than a game when it is this obvious.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
After reading alot of these posts, my thoughts have changed a little bit. I don’t believe in throwing the game but I think it would have been a good idea to let the less experienced players play when it was obvious they were going to win. And firing the coach was wrong..correction WOULD have been better.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Being a local in the DFW area, I’ve heard quite a bit on this story, it was beat to death locally with essentially the same arguements seen today. It’s also interesting that at least one media outlet reported it was the Coach’s instructions to the players to “run the score to 100″ for a school record.
Although there are conflicting stories of excessive score-runninng, agressive defense and full-court presses, the “suck it up” crowd should note that the Players on the Losing side did NOT whine about it, and apparently have no problem with “keeping score in life”.
The debate about Sportsmanship is interesting, and it shows that some people confuse Sportsmanship with whining or quitting, and others confuse Winning with Success – at the High School stage of life.
However, the Title of the article IS a misleading Tease. The Coach wasn’t fired for being too good, he was fired (as many of you noted) for shooting off his mouth in public after his employer issued an apology. The Title should have been “Being Good Won’t keep you from Being Fired if You Say Stupid Things about your Employer in Public”
Too many people (celebrities, sports celebs, etc) think they can shoot off their mouth – and take their arguement with their Employer public. That’s not your job, folks, and normally, you just sound stupid doing it !!
He was just stupid for taking his comments public and the employer had the right to can him for insubordination.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I must say that it seems unfair that this coach was terminated from his job! My opinion-I think he was terminated because he stood up for his beliefs and values. I think it’s important for us to understand that when there’s a competion-almost always there can only be ONE winning team. Why should this coach apologize for winning this basketball game? It’s rediculous!
January 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Ed – Go back to work
RT & JAHRO – AMEN!
January 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Last time I checked being opinionated was a poor charactor quality –
Why don’t you go back to work?
January 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
I think the coach was totally out of line and I agree with his firing, based on his attitude if nothing else. His attitude certainly seems at odds with the philisophical point of view expressed by the school. What kind of Christian would participate in such humiliation of fellow participants? I agree that a “golden rule” should have been applied and I agree with those who suggest the Covenant School over-stepped its Need To Win by mercilessly attacking throughout most of the game. While it may be true that Dallas Acadamy was not in the same class as Covenant, it doesn’t excuse Grimes’s total lack of compassion and empathy. I would have thought that the Covenant players themselves would have displayed some empathy, but apparently their coach’s attitude overwhelmed any such feelings on the part of the kids – is that what high school athletics is supposed to instill in kids?
January 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Amen!
January 30th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
The coach should not be fired for winning. He could have put in the 2nd string to give all of his team a chance to play and have a more balanced game. One does not have to humiliate another in the process of winning.
In life, in sport, in everything – some people win, some people lose. That is life. It is important to be a gracious winner as well as a good loser. One learns more lessons from losing than one does from winning. Apply the lessons, correct what you can, and try harder next time.
I do not agree with the editorial apology. Dragging religion into sports is inappropriate, even if ths is a religious school. The players are there to play a sport, and that’s what they did. They are expected to play fairly and abide by the rules, and this should be applicable in any school’s sports team.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
This is great! You guys went to town! I’ve never seen more posts on HR Blunders EVER!! Lots of kids in sports these days, I guess… Everyone: have a wonderful weekend! You all should check out iReport! Now there you could blog for days on any and everything under the sun! Bye! Going back to work!
January 30th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Kathy,
I concur! Well said.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I don’t see how backing off the playing intensity in the second half and working on skill techniques would have “allowed the other team to win”. Score once perhaps but not win. I am used to systems in high school athletics that would have mandated the bench be in the game when the lead was over 50 points. This coach missed a teaching opportunity, lost focus on sportsmanship and conveyed a really destructive message. “The end score is all that counts”. Both sides lost on this one. The winning team lost their coach and became steeped in controversy. The losing team was never allowed “in the game”. The parents lost sight of the opportunity to teach citizenship and sportsmanship. When a challenged child is on the court and a vastly superior team facilitates the opportunity to succeed clearly and with dignity, everyone is winning. The outcome of this game appears to have been a foregone conclusion. Why not allow some dignity with the loss and let the high scoring team show their generosity, humanity and sportsmanship by not insisting on a complete shut out. Coach, please consider the age of your players, the total responsibility of you job as a coach in a teaching institution. The school needs clear written policy before hiring the next coach. The division needs to revisit policies of inclusion and parity within divisions. Warning is definitely in order. A plan of remedy and review is also in order. Firing seems to be a great way for lawyers to profit and kids to lose and may be passing up another learning opportunity.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
to Ray:
And I thank God every day!
January 30th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Cindy – how dare you thank God for Obama – he refused to use a Bible to be sworn in, attends a church that asks God to damn America – I think you better leave God out of this one.
Oh by the way – my wife lost her job and we are going to be short on groceries this next month – you should send me a check for $250.00 so that I can be sure to feed my children.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Ed:
You apparantly did not watch the swearing in process. He used the Bible that was used by President Lincoln.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
P.S. Ed
If I knew you and could help you, I would!!! It’s what we do in this country.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
A lot of people are missing the point. The winning coach had his team shooting 3 pointers and running a full court press. That is not acceptable when you are up 59-0 at halftime. Leave the losing team alone, they didn’t complain. The Minnesota Golden Gophers beat Illinois handily last night and they weren’t shooting 3 pointers and running a full court press at the end because they didn’t need to. And this was an important Big 10 matchup. Tubby Smith knows how to win with class, the Dallas Covenant school coach does not. Plain and simple.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
But your politics ask me to help others even those that I do not know while my family is having it tough -
January 30th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Oh no, here we go. People turn their brains off when they start talking partisan politics.
Hey Ed,
Please watch the video of the inauguration – President Obama used the Lincoln bible for the swearing in.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Ed:
Yes..you are right. I do it all the time and people do it for me. I’ve had cancer three times. Thousands of people donate to the cancer society every day so I might have a chance to live a full life and they don’t know me. It’s called compassion and I so much appreciate their efforts on my behalf. I’m a nice person, Ed. Even if our politics are different and that’s okay to be different and think different. We all have a responsibility to do our part to make this country strong. Don’t you agree.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
THanks dritchie…I thought I was the only one here who knew that
January 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Cindy/Ed, please exchange eachother’s phone numbers…my email is getting backed up with all of these posts…
January 30th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Sorry about the Bible thing – if you are correct I heard it wrong on the news. I apologize if that is the case.
Cindy – I am a major fundraiser for numerous charities and think that that belongs out of the government and should stay with the churches and the community. The government should not tell me to do it – besides I’ll get more money to a charity through my efforts without paying a dozen government admin people to handle the money.
I always wonder what former President John F. Kennedy would think about todays culture of gimme gimme gimme –
Ask not what your Country can do for you ask what you can do for your Country.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Cindy – do you not have a job – if you do please get back to it – if you do not – please take some time away from the keyboard.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Cindy –
I guess I am a bit bitter that I was fully ready to embrace and support OUR new President but the left here in Wisconsin continues to bash, trash talk and act in a very partisan manner. Sort of touched off by your “thank God” comment. Let it go – if you truly want a joined Country then stop attacking the former administration. (Not you Cindy – much of the left)
January 30th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
The issue was not that he was “too good.”
He was quoted as saying “My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent.” Yet that is EXACTLY what he did. There was no honor.
He was fired for his public disagreement with the position of his employer. That public disagreement compromises the integrity of the program and has the potential to divide the school.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
You are right. WE just need to move forward now and hope that our new President will do what is best for everyone. I do have to say that President Obama’s speech did make me stop and think about my life and if I try hard enough. My son struggles in school and I complain but don’t do much about it myself. The President made me realize that I need to do my part also in helping my child succeed so I work with him ALOT more than I did before and I think it’s making a difference
January 30th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Dan…It’s not really our business but I’ve been sitting here doing paperwork the past few hours. I HAVE been working.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Just like Cindy –
I can work on planty of things and chime in often. Trust us – its called multi-tasking.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I am so disappointed with the way competition has been changed to be a “dirty word”. Why do we feel it’s inappropriate to let the stronger team win? What were they supposed to do, fall back to give their opponents a “chance”? Why is this considered to be “fair”? We’ve created entitlement and whiney cry-babies by doing this type of thing.
If the teams are so mis-matched, then level the playing field in a different way.
And how in the world did this discussion become political? It takes a new president to tell you to be accountable for your own actions and for those of your offspring? When did teachers become the childminders and take over the responsibility of raising our children? No wonder they can’t teach if they spend their days babysitting with no support from the parents. How about some joint effort here?
January 30th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I would agree with Lorna and anyone else who says that the the coach should not have apologized. It is a game, a sport, where there are winners and losers. Life is the same way. There are going to be disappointments in life and it is up to the individual on how they face that disappointment. We teach our children to strive to be the best. It seems quite contradictory to me, to then tell them they need to feel sorry or embarrassed about being that best. SERIOUSLY!!!!! My mother used to not let us win when we played jacks or checker and we were only 7 or 8 years old. What it taught me was that I needed to practice harder, if I was going to win. I learned that nothing in life is given to you, you must put in the work. God wants us to be our best selves and that is what these girls were doing. Unless this team did something morally offensive and cheated, then everyone else needs to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and try again. REALLY, IT WILL BE OK!!! OR BETTER YET, HIRE THE COACH THAT WAS JUST FIRED!!!!! I can’t believe that there are conversations surrounding someone’s hurt feelings over losing a game…..
January 30th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
I think about 2 points worth of common sense might have kept Mr. Gimes in his coaching job.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
THanks, Ed. Everyone have a great weekend!
January 30th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
I wish all of you to have a safe and happy weekend.
January 30th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
AMEN! Mom of Twinz
My mom never let us win at checkers or gold fish or whatever. I am a fierce competitor to this day and so are my kids. My daughter as a FRESHMAN in HS will letter on varsity softball this year because she gave it her all and beat out jr’s and sophmores. Should she be ashamed that she beat girls older than her, no flipping way.
January 30th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
First and foremost, where were the REFS in this game? A coach cheering his team on and telling them to play thier best is a coach who is doing his job. It is the REFS job to make sure that the game is played fairly and by the rules. With that being said, I think the firing of the coach was the right thing to do IF and ONLY IF the school specifically told the coach not to comment and he did so anyway…that’s insubordination, plain and simple. Because his team pulled out all the stops on this one, does not mean he should be fired…. christian school or not, coaches of any sport are hired to teach the athletes how to play thier best….
January 30th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Private Party — that’s the Spirit! Beat ‘em and rub their noses in it! Trash-talk, make them look foolish, and dance in the end zone and yell in their face! LOSERS! That’ll show ‘em the ol’ Christian Spirit! LOL
January 30th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
RT
Are u assuming that I do those things? I was making a point about my daughter who gave it her all because that’s what I taught her, not to Trash talk and yell losers. I am a Christian and I have taught my kids all 3 of them, Christian values. I also have 2 boys that are overcoming ADD and phonilogical dyslexia to excell at baseball and make the All stars at the end of the season for 4 yrs, I didn’t ask the league to make the winners (when we got our butts kicked) to feel sorry for my boys. I am not sure what u mean with the LOL at the end I think you’re joking, but then again I’m not so sure. Anyways, have a nice weekend, it’s Friday and the baseball season starts tomorrow at my local league.
January 30th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Private Party – I am extremely impressed that your daughter beat out sophmores and juniors and Mom of Twinz I think it’s great that your mom never let you win at checkers but what does that have to do with a coach keeping the full court press on in a game they were winning 59-0 at halftime? They don’t even do that in the pros. When an NFL team is beating another team badly they run the ball , they don’t throw 50 yard touchdown passes. These are grown adults making millions and they have more character than a certain high school coach. I’m with you RT – that’s the spirit! LOL
January 30th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
I’ve always suspected that most HR people where “touchy-feely” types that just want everyone to be happy and have a solution that “Everyone should win.” I think this explains two things: first, that most HR staff will never make it to the CEO/COO position because they cannot imagine one persone doing a better job than another; and second, that American work ethic (be it business or sports) has gone down the tubes. I applaud the coach for standing up for himself and his team, and for telling the world that takiing pitty is not helpful to anyone. How are we helping our fellow countrymen by making them dependent on federal subsidies, food stamps and other hand-outs. Contrary to what the recently empowered left would have you believe, handouts are not the same as a hand up. Yes, you can sit on your butts and complain, do nothing to invest in your career or to better position yourself for employment…Uncle Sam will take care of you untile the entire country is bankrupt. I guess I’m unusual because I started as a CEO and went into Human Resources / Human Capital Management because frankly, the majority of HR just can’t do the job!
January 31st, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Not sure why we are comparing this to the NFL where you have paid athletes who are adults. These were teenagers looking to have fun. Isn’t that while they call it a game? And by the way, if an NFL team lost 100-0, you don’t think the other team would be screaming about running up the score?? I read a stat that said 70% of 13 year olds stop playing competitive sports because it isn’t fun and because of pressure from parents and coachs. How sad is that? The team that won 100-0 is a Christian school. That is supposed to mean something. At 59-0 at half, the coach clearly knew that the other team had no chance of winning. He could of slowed the game down, stopped taking 3’s, pulled off the full court press and put in his bench. The game would still have been a blow out but he wouldn’t have made national news or lost his job by embarrassing an opponent. When the coach says “my values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent”, what’s his definition of running up the score…200 to nothing? Please. If the school gave him parameters about what they expected (e.g., remember what kind of school we are) and he did it anyway, then I’m ok if he was let go. Otherwise, I firm warning would have done the trick. What we don’t know is what the school administration had told him and how many other times something similar to this has happened. Bottom line, not using common sense and good sportsmanship cost him his job.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Life experiences, both elating and deflating are what build character in a young person. Both teams have gained much by this experience. Hopefully so have the ‘adults’ involved. Sports build self esteem and the ability to deal with disappointment – with dignity. Our society is soarly lacking the ability to cope with daily stresses because our children are now coddled from birth, protected from all evils and not prepared for failure in the real world. I see young adults that quit their jobs everyday in our business because it is ‘too hard’ and they are not prepared to step up and take a chance – failure is just not an option for them…..instant, easy gratification is the only thing they understand. Who is right, who is wrong….does it matter? Learn and move on……both schools should take a look at what they might be teaching their students about real life.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:33 pm
This situation shows the bias that mainstream media pushes off onto the masses. Think about it. There were 2 coaches present that day, so why is everyone ragging on the winnng coach? If anything the losing coach should have forfeited the game to protect his players from embarrassment.
And what about the facts people? Yes, the facts! I have to reserve judgement on exactly how “dirty” they played. Some sources say they played full court press until fourth quarter, some say they played full court press only halfway through first quarter…. so who has the facts straight?
Nevertheless, It falls to the losing coach to “throw in the towel” if his team is outmatched.
February 1st, 2009 at 11:52 am
An intense discussion. BUT, the HR question is “Was coach Grimes fired for being TOO GOOD?” Some respondents have seen the TV footage on the case, and the body of the example given by HR Blunders clearly does not set out all of the facts.
The fact as given on TV (of course a bastion of reliable truth) was that Grimes continued to use his first string players throughout the entire game. So for those who have trumpeted win -win-win in this discussion, I ask as HR people, what would be some of the job duties of a high school girls coach and Teacher – would that be to train ALL of the girls, to train how to play the game well, train in sportsperson-like behavior, demonstrate honor, and oh yea – do not insult or call your employer stupid in the press?
Coach Grimes MAY have trained his girls to play skillfully – but as one respondent notes we don’t really know his Win record against competitive opponents, so maybe one point for Grimes on job well done. But I would argue that he did not show sportsperson-like behavior, he did not train ALL of the girls, he did not give second string girls the opportunity to play and learn – he insisted on pushing the points, even when it no longer made teaching or good coaching sense.
When would you give second string girls a chance to play if not in this situation? How is publically rebuking your employer in the press NOT insubordination? Does his statement in any way show committment to his young players? Or is it not more self-aggrandizement – shown by his desire to hit the 100 mark?
For those respondents here that have children playing sports – we have all had our kids lose games – some loses felt honorable, others were lost to our bad playing or to pushy and non-sportsperson like opponent players and coaches. Even overlooking the Catholic school values being promoted by “winning” Covenant School, a jungle predator kill to win philosophy does not fit most school coaching philosophies. This basic approach is not a whimpy pander-to-the-weak defect, but good teaching and coaching and good human ethics. Something I hope all of the respondents here understand and respect in their positions in HR.
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:17 am
My guess is that even the girls on the winning team were embarrassed after the game. Sports are competitive and fun. The lack of compassion for the other team is where the fun was lost. Some type of mercy rule should be put in place for all sports events at the high school level and below.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:26 am
TXBureaucrat… I’m almost at a loss for words. I’m glad that you think very highly of yourself, but I can’t say that I agree with your wholesale judgment on HR professionals. I think your comment about the “recently empowered left” probably speaks volumes about your perspective. Can you tell me how federal subsidies and food stamps are related to a story about a coach being fired following a high school basketball game where the final score was 100-0?
And as for the notion of others that beating a team 100-0 somehow teaches a valuable life lesson to the kids and that American society is just getting soft, all I can say is that it seems to me to be more of an example of the “me me me” mentality that is so pervasive these days. It was apparently important to the coach for his team to win by 100 points, but I don’t really believe he was really thinking about teaching anyone a valuable life lesson – probably more a matter of feeding his own ego and those of his players.
I believe the relevant HR question was “Should he have been fired?” My answer would be that it depends on why he was fired, which is no more clear to me now than when this whole commentary started…
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:29 am
to dritchie:
My feelings exactly!
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I’m a 64 year old grandfather of six. My son played soccer only one year pre-teen, wasn’t very good at it, and dropped out because his coach was focused on winning at any cost. My two daughters played active league soccer from under-8’s to under-18’s, with supportive coaches who realized that their job was to help kids grow, & to develop confidence, teamwork, and character. Winning was nice (which was most of the time) but more immportant was making the kids “winners” whatever the score — not beating up on the kids, whether their team or the others.
I was a referee for both boys and girls soccer the last five years my girls played. Mean kids were seldom a problem – I never had to eject (red card) a player over my five year “career” — can’t say the same for some coaches and parents.
One of the teams in our league was fron the state School for the Deaf which is located in our town, & I had the pleasure & honor of refereeing a number of their games against non-special needs kids over that period. I’ve also raised a special needs grandson whose parents were unable to care for him. All of which is to say, I’ve likeln had more experience dealing with kids, including special needs kids and their relationships with the “normal” world, than most of the commentators.
The coach who was fired, from my perspective, demonstrated two fatal flaws — He forgot (if he ever knew) that the job of a youth coach is first, to develop character; second, to develop skills; and third – but in that order – to win games. This would especially be the case in a religious school, which is based on values hopefully a bit nhigher than the rest of society. Second, his open challenge to the school administration was an inexcuysable breach of loyalty to his employer, Both the school, the kids, and the game are far better without him.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
This thread of comments is debating an issue that is irrelevant (however, the article header is misleading). The crux is that when an employer, whether that is a school, corporation, etc., issues an “official” statement and an individual employee sends a very public message that contradicts the offical line, it is a given that some type of discipline will follow. I find it hard to believe the coach could have been too surprised by the action taken.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
At this point there had been 167 replies in this thread. A total of 75 people contributed to the thread. Three people contributed 57 (34.13%) of all the replies.
Name Count Percent
ED 25 14.97%
Cindy 20 11.98%
Private Party 12 7.19%
mike 4 2.40%
Ray 4 2.40%
RT 4 2.40%
dritchie 3 1.80%
HR Dude 3 1.80%
John 3 1.80%
Keith 3 1.80%
Lorna 3 1.80%
opinionated 3 1.80%
Pat 3 1.80%
Allen 2 1.20%
Arlene 2 1.20%
Beatty 2 1.20%
Brian 2 1.20%
Dan 2 1.20%
Don 2 1.20%
Forist 2 1.20%
Jeff 2 1.20%
Jenny 2 1.20%
Jodi 2 1.20%
Johnny S. 2 1.20%
Phyllis C-Memphis 2 1.20%
Rich,SPHR 2 1.20%
SC 2 1.20%
Sharon 2 1.20%
Susan 2 1.20%
Albert Roark 1 0.60%
Anitra 1 0.60%
annmarie 1 0.60%
Baltimore Reader 1 0.60%
Brit 1 0.60%
Captain Nice 1 0.60%
Carol 1 0.60%
Carol Simpson 1 0.60%
Christian says 1 0.60%
coach mike 1 0.60%
Dan Kepple 1 0.60%
Dealer In Vegas 1 0.60%
Donna C 1 0.60%
dozer 1 0.60%
Frances 1 0.60%
Gina 1 0.60%
Give me a break 1 0.60%
Grandpa Mike 1 0.60%
Hbenion 1 0.60%
Heather 1 0.60%
Helen 1 0.60%
JAHRO 1 0.60%
Janet 1 0.60%
JAS 1 0.60%
Jerry 1 0.60%
Katherine 1 0.60%
Kathy 1 0.60%
LEU 1 0.60%
Linda 1 0.60%
Marie 1 0.60%
Marquis 1 0.60%
Marty 1 0.60%
MOM OF TWINZ 1 0.60%
NJ 1 0.60%
PB-TEXAS SPHR 1 0.60%
Peter 1 0.60%
PGC 1 0.60%
Rod 1 0.60%
Rose 1 0.60%
Settles 1 0.60%
Shyann 1 0.60%
Tiffany 1 0.60%
Trace 1 0.60%
TX Bureaucrat 1 0.60%
Total 167 100.00%
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:26 pm
First of all, it appears we are all reacting to an incident based on incomplete facts. Have you all read all sides of this story before rushing to judgment? I did a little research on the issue and read Coach Grimes’ response as well statements made by others. With less than 10 players on Grimes’ team, he had no choice but to play some of his better players throughout the entire game. He claims he stopped pressing the team early on. Had Coach Grimes kept ALL of his starters in for most of the game or kept up a full-court press on them – then he was wrong for what he did. But there appears to be very conflicting stories about what actually happened at the game. My guess is that Coach Grimes’ claims are accurate. Did the losing coach deny any of Grimes’ claims? The reporter of the story – that brought this incident to our eyes – was not at the game and only followed up on the story the following week. Only a video tape will give conclusive proof of what went on.
Once this was made public and the coach was being taken to task by people all over the nation, I feel that he had a right to respond. Regardless, I am not sure he should be the only person to be chided – and certainly not fired.
This team has been winless for 4 years. Where was the league in setting up some guidelines to deal with this special needs team? Where was the losing school’s athletic department? Why should the winning coach be blamed when nobody else did anything to mitigate the situation BEFORE the game (or season)? Where are the parents of the losing school? How can they let their school’s administration subject their kids to this year after year? Did Coach Grime’s boss or the opposing coach have a chat with him before the game? There may have been better ways for Coach Grimes to handle the game – but it’s not only up to the opposing coach to come up with them. Don’t expect an opposing coach to be the knight in shining armor when NOBODY on the other side of the equation even met him halfway.
HS, College, and Pro levels all have different leagues to keep things competitive. This small school needs find such a league. If none exists, they are doing their students a grave disservice by being blown out every single game of every single season. If there are no alternatives, they should consider using club-hour, extra-curricular activities, and other less formal methods to teach the kids how to play team sports and to teach them the value of hard work, dedication, training, and success. I am sure every other team in the league would agree to participate in a uniquely structured tournament to include this team – but don’t expect the opposing coaches to solve another school’s challenges by themselves.
Anybody who coaches knows that it is better to play a sport ‘correctly’ and badly beat a weaker opponent than to utterly humiliate them by winning while not playing the sport correctly at all. If their league does not have a mercy rule and does not provide the refs with the ability to call a game when it gets out of hand, then a winning coach has no choice but to play the game to the end. Playing the game the wrong way does not teach anything positive to either side. Coach Grimes could not swap out his best players – he did not have enough himself. Was he to beat this team 70-20 and only play 3 players against their 5? That would have been worse.
I am a hockey coach and there are schools in my division that consistently field weak squads. A few months ago we played against one of them and the score became 4-0 after 2 minutes. So we broke up our starting lines and played the bench players – and the score was 6-0 after 1 period. So then we benched all of our better players and anybody who had scored a goal was told that they could no longer take more shots on net and my weaker players made it 10-0 after 2 periods. In the 3rd period, we played our offensemen on defense and vice versa and the game ended at 15-1, the hockey equivalent of 100-0. I did not like the game – my better players were not gaining anything from it and the weaker players were getting excited about getting points for sub-standard effort. However, the alternative would have been to hold on to the puck and play ‘keep away’ or not touch the puck at all – two alternatives that would have been more humiliating for the opposition.
Last week, I fielded a decimated team against one of the top teams in the league. We lost 10-0 and played a good game. The opposition did not show us any mercy – and I did not expect to receive any. Their top players were on the ice even towards the end. Afterwards, my boys felt good about their effort. Had they not played hard, it would have been 30-0. So we learn our lessons, move on, and hopefully grow from the experience. That’s life. And nobody complained afterwards.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:44 pm
(26)
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:45 am
I swore I wouldn’t check back on this thread (seriously, how did liberals vs conservatives come up?). But alas, Hockey coach brings some reason, thank you. I STILL can’t find verification as to whether or not the Covenant Coach was pressing into the fourth quarter. That’s really my only issue.
I have played and coached. And I’ve been on both sides of a lop-sided game. I don’t care about winning or losing, just being able to teach the kids something. If you badly out-man another team, you learn very little by preventing them from crossing half court. And his statement of his “beliefs and values not allowing him to run up the score” rings hollow to me.
I watched a rec basketball game last week. One of the coaches knew before the game started (by watching warm ups) that he clearly had a better team. Since he had 11 players, he took one of his better starters and relegated them to the 2nd team. After the first quarter the score was 23-3, so he stopped pressing the guards at half court. After half time, he had his remaining two best players passed the ball off to the other players rather than shooting. And of course they were chucking 3 pointers, because they normally won’t get that chance. They began passing the ball 5 or 6 times before shooting. You could see the happiness in the eyes of the kids who normally don’t get to score. I didn’t get a chance to, but I wanted to congratulate that coach after the game. Sounds like Hockey Coach handled it the same way, though I will say this. There may not be another league available for the losing team in this story. And if they haven’t won in four years, isn’t that a clue to Coach Grimes as to what’s about to happen?
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:50 am
To Hockey Coach, Where were you days ago when this subject was getting out of hand. Well said!! You sound like a great coach.
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:31 am
I think we’ve gone into overtime on this string. Time to move onto something of greater merit.
February 20th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Sports are competitive. If a team doesn’t want to lose, then they shouldn’t play the game. There will be times in life when you get beat bad like that, and you have to find a way to live with it.
May 1st, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Well, I believe that the firing of the coach was inappropriate and the coach should seek legal counsel regarding a potential Wrongful Termination Lawsuit. I think that a court would find (based on the facts and the available public information on this coach and school given) that this was a Wrongful Termination. I don’t particularly like what happened including the 100 -0 score, nor do I like that the Headmaster wrote an apology publicly in the press. He could have contacted the school by letter, personally or by phone however he chose to air it publicly without considering his team or coach. And I think that the coach should have discussed his and his team’s feelings about this apology before he publicly air his disagreement with the Headmaster’s public apology.
John Martin, AAMS,AWMA,CLTCA,CRPC,DIA,HIA,HIPPAP,LTCP,LUTCF,MHP,RFC,RHU