Comments on: Big court award: Tale of the bogus e-mail

By: JB

JB — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:54:03 +0000

I also agree with the verdict. Money seems to be the only language that employers understand when they ask subordinates to skirt the law. I have been a computer programmer for almost 20 years and have always been considered a technical expert. My former manager tried to bully me and another team member into doing something that was questionable and possibly unethical. She ignored our expect opinions and did not consider the downstream effects of what she was asking and the possibility of causing more damage to the customer. Her equally incompetent assistant also tried to push me via instant messaging and I finally told him that I would not do anything that would have legal consequences or was unethical. I consulted with the team member, who bluntly stated that our manager had been telling her to “do things we shouldn’t be doing…” and that the team member had to go to our manager’s manager and complain. With that, I went to see my manager’s manager and not only told him about this incident, but also of other incidents of harassment and unprofessional behavior of both the manager and assistant. When it came time for the manager’s annual review, she was suddenly transferred to another area. A competent and intelligent manager replaced her. One of the first things he said to me during our first meeting was: “Everyone will be treated with respect” and that we will not be asked to do anything that is questionable from a technical or legal standpoint. A nightmare has finally ended.

By: Top 10 HR Blunders of 2008 | HRBlunders.com | The worst mistakes, catastrophes, and near-misses

Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:16:48 +0000

[...] Big court award: Tale of the bogus e-mail. Ronald Luri, a manager for Republic Services, Inc., in Ohio, was told to fire three employees, all [...]

By: R. B.

R. B. — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:48:06 +0000

I was placed in the position of doing something that was unlawful or, as the division president put it, being “insubordinate.” I tried to inform this executive that what he ordered me to do was not lawful. He cut me off midway through the sentence and told me that he knew what the law said and that HE was telling me what I would do, that I was to follow his instructions completely and that he was the only one who could make any changes to his instructions, period. He made it abundantly clear that he didn’t care what the law said and that he knew what he was telling me to do was illegal. I tried to get help from our corporate legal department, but, after initially telling me not to worry, that they would protect me and straighten everything out, they called three days later and told me they couldn’t protect me “down the road,” that to not follow his instructions, though illegal, would be an act of insubordination, and that the division president was slotted to become the next corporate president and board chairman, so they weren’t sure what they could do. About a week later, I received a phone call from the corporate VP of HR and he told me I needed to “move on down the road” (yep, that’s exactly what he said) because I couldn’t align myself with current leadership.

I had given my heart and soul to this place and it nearly killed me to lose my job in this manner. My reviews were good, I’m still very good friends with two of the past presidents that I reported to and I’ve always been considered a strong performer / contributor and knowledgeable professional. I had no other means of support and almost lost everything because of respectfully declining to do what this unethical division president wanted me to do. It was a very stressful, confusing, heart-breaking, emotionally and financially devastating experience. So I can attest to the fact that telling the offender that something is wrong doesn’t mean they will listen and do the right thing. A lot of people simply don’t care.

I’m an HR professional with over 20 years of experience and I work hard to protect my employer from potential liability. But I believe any company that doesn’t conduct business in accordance with the law should be penalized in the one way they understand…financially. If more companies were made to pay massive amounts of money when they willfully choose to break the law, maybe fewer people would be in the situation I was in a few years ago. And that would be a very good thing indeed.

By: Deb

Deb — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:39:04 +0000

I agree with the verdict 100% and with the award amount even though it is HUGE. Asking anyone to break the law FOR you and threatening,and carrying out, a serious consequence (firing) for not doing it is also HUGE. Employers who bully their employees into breaking the law on their behalf need to know that there are consequences for breaking laws and even bigger ones for mandating your employees to break them on their behalf. I think this is the message this court is clearly conveying. Maybe the next (pompous) employer who doesn’t want to abide by laws or thinks the laws don’t apply to them will stop to consider that there could be some serious consequences (not just for the employee who refuses to break laws on their behalf) but also for the employer who demands that they do.

By: Darrel Tyree

Darrel Tyree — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:48:49 +0000

Yes, Company owners will listen, but some choose to be stupid anyway. I’ve had one President ask me to do something that illegal: his directive was to ‘find a way to get rid of all of the old employees over 40 so we can replace them with young tigers.” I remember it well because my 40th birthday had just passed. After reminding him of age discrimination at both state and federal level he replied, “oh, I would not want us to do anything illegal….. but find a way to get it done!” I did accomplish what he asked, but not the way he would have wished. I designed a window pension offer, which was completely legal, providing a monthly income very close to current salary and offered to employees age 40 or more, and most accepted the offer. I gave the President exactly what he wanted. Although I didn’t accept the pension offer – I would have considered it unethical because I was the one who designed and offered it, I left shortly after. The organization later went under, young tigers and all, in my opinion, because there weren’t enough employees knowledgable enough remaining for the organization to remain in business. The expense of paying off 40 year olds and up in order to get rid of them didn’t help.

By: rob

rob — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:19:09 +0000

as a lawyer i advised against terminating a 72 year old employee with 40 years of service who was well regarded. he was to be replaced by a young mba although the business unit was astute enough to say his job had been eliminated. so, they ignored the advice (which I widely circulated to senior management) and terminated this employee, paid him 6 months severance and within 30 days they retained the same ex-employee as a consultant for twice what he was making AND HE CONTINUED ON FOR ANOTHER 2 TO 3 YEARS ON THAT BASIS AT TWICE HIS FORMER PAY.

By: Princess Robinson

Princess Robinson — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:04:48 +0000

Wow. This is something. I work as an Office Manager and Paralegal at a law firm and I can tell you that I wouldn’t do anything that I am not comfortable with nor illegal, no matter what. I would quit my job first. Discrimination is on a rampage, especially for people over the age 45. It is unfortunate that these people are targeted and because of some them lack of education and trainging they are victimized. I think this guy did the right thing. The company apparently knew they were wrong if they were bold enough to change documents (e-mails). There is a question on the settlement amount though. I don’t know if he should have been awarded such an amount but I do agree he should be compensated. What happened to the people he was told to fire?

By: paul schultz

paul schultz — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:27:39 +0000

Whatever you do, put it in writing.

I was fired as a church administrator after I told a church, which wanted to use our facility for a banquet, that they could not use our commercial kitchen as neither of our certified food service managers could be present for their event. I told them they could use the smaller non-commercial kitchen for warming their potluck food. They said fine but the pastor hit the roof. In my meeting with the pastor and the chairman of the personnel committee I showed them why it was against the city’s health code and law to have allowed them access to our commercial kitchen. I was still fired. In hindsight I should have put the problem in writing to the pastor detailing the city food service code and laws; then when he still wanted me to do it I would have documentation to plead my case before the personnel committee or to take the church to court for wrongful termination. Had I allowed its use and someone got food poisoning, our church would have been all over the news and I definitely would have been the fall guy and would have had an even harder time finding new employment. You learn from your mistakes.

By: Maggie

Maggie — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:24:29 +0000

I left my last HR Director job because I was told to fire a 45 year old woman so a 24 year old woman could take her place. There were no negative reviews or write ups ever given to the 45 year old. I asked the CEO to put her on a performance plan but don’t fire her. Over the course of the week, I talked to the CEO three times about this. When Friday came, he was adament that it be done. I told him I was giving my two week notice and that I was not going to fire her.

He ended up having he VP of that Branch do it. The employee was actually relieved by the termination because they were making her life a living hell. I was glad to leave an organization that had such disregard for employment law. This CEO was fairly new to the job and was showing that he was the boss.

His predesessor would never have done this and would have listened to me. I can really believe that this happened because I have experienced it myself.

By the way, I received unemployment compensation since the State of Wisconsin felt that this was a constructive discharge.

By: LYNN FISCHER

LYNN FISCHER — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:57:34 +0000

I would tell the boss why I could not follow the directions and ask them to do it themselves if
they felt it was the right thing to do.